MacVideo Forums

I’m currently in the process of converting my family’s ageing collection of cine films to DVD format and it’ll probably come as no surprise to anyone on here that I’m using iMovie and iDVD to handle the transition. I’ve submitted a reel to a firm in Wigan to see a sample of what’s possible quality-wise. The firm is mainly Windows-based and didn’t seem to know much about Macs (which surprised me as he said he supplied a lot of material to the BBC in Manchester for use in Final Cut) so I was wondering if someone on this forum might be able to answer the following questions for me:

1) What is the best format to receive for input into iMove? He’s running me two files from the conversion - one to .avi and the other to .mpeg4 to see which I prefer.

2) What is the optimum resolution that the conversion should be done to? Looking around on the internet, 720x576 seems to be optimum. Although some firms claim to scan at “High-Def” it would appear that this doesn’t mean much as the source material isn’t good enough to make any noticeable improvement in quality - a little like just adding extra pixels to an image in Photoshop - is this correct?

3) The film will be scanned at 16fps (using a Sniper unit, which seems industry-standard), but PAL runs at something like 21fps, I believe? What happens to the missing 5fps - will the motion be slightly jerky or does the footage just run slightly faster when converted (a little like films on the telly, I’m told, which run something like 5% faster than in the cinema)? Or will the Sniper take care of everything and output at 21fps?

4) Finally, are there any other issues I should be aware of? I’d hate to finish the project only for someone to tell me “oh, you should have done it that way...” when they see the final DVD.

Sorry for such a long list of questions, but getting definitive answers off the ‘net seems quite tricky. Also, if anyone has any recommendations for conversion companies in the Manchester / North West region I’d be interested to hear about them. As always, thanks in advance for any and all replies.

JonClark2,

if the sniper is the sort that I've seen, the quality can be extraordinarily good. It scans each frame individually, rather than running in real time and has software and algorithms to allow the operator to choose the desired frame rate for the output file.

PAL actually runs at 25 fps ( or 50 fields if you want to be pedantic ). I believe that the Sniper also allows you to output files in Hi Def formats, either interlaced, or progressive scan. If the camera and lenses originally used were good ones and you might need to output at a higher quality than standard DVD, it might be worth getting one roll digitised at higher quality and judging the final quality for yourself so that you can make a meaningful decision for subsequent rolls.

If you're solely converting to standard DVD, you need 25 fps ( 50 fields ) at a resolution of 720 x 576. Standard DVDs don't support Hi Def.

JonClark2,

You are right that the conversion doesn't need to be that good quality as the source material is of low resolution.

All I would say is that you should find a way of keeping the 'raw' footage, as you might want to come back to it and re-edit it. DVD is a lossy format and transitions etc. lose frames at the ends of clips.

My Dad got all his cine films converted to DVDs about 7 years ago and I wish I had access to the raw footage as the DVDs were made on a PC and have glitches and artefacts that affect the viewing.

Many thanks for the responses. Sorry, I’ve not got back sooner but I’ve been working away from home for the last couple of weeks and all we’ve been doing is working, eating and sleeping.

I should be home this weekend, so I’ll study these replies properly then all I should have my first batch of converted footage to play with. But in the meantime, thanks for the info - good points on the DVDs only being able to play at standard definition.

Hiya, I'm a new UK-based member here. Couldn't help seeing this thread and references to the Sniper from MovieStuff. I'm working on a project at the moment for which a budget application is in place to acquire 8mm, 9.5mm (yes!) and 16mm systems from MovieStuff and I have to say that of all the low/medium-priced options we've looked at the Sniper seems to be best. What's also good is that it can sit at the heart of a HD workflow with resulting output being either 1920x1080 (i or p) or 720p. I think a 10-bit uncompressed YUV and RGB option is there, too.

We also looked at farming out a large public-sector archiving job to houses that still have Rank Cintel Mk3 telecine but as these machines are now obsolete and only create SD outputs, it's been discounted.

There are others, such as the Tobin systems and and also MW Flashscan from Germany, but the MovieStuff gear seems to offer best value. We'll know if we have the funding in September!

As for formats for importing into either iMovie or FCPX, I use a range of codecs depending on the output requirements. iMovie is fairly limited in the codecs it can handle, but for SD go for a simple Quicktime DV-MOV or even just a straight 768x576 MOV file. I use a new Blackmagic Intensity Shuttle SD/HD r/t converter and multi-way processor unit feeding a Mac via Thunderbolt (10gbps!) and therefore use Quicktime 10-bit Uncompressed YUV or RGB. Other options are DPX or one of the ProRes422 family - HQ normally. I don't really use iMovie any more, preferring either Premiere Pro CS5.5 or FCPX (which I'm still getting my head around), but I'm sure iMovie is OK with ProRes422.

The thing about 8mmmm (Standard 8, Super 8) sources is that they are actually capable of delivering a good HD digital scan - so don't assume that only SD is possible. I've seen some excellent 16mm and also Super-8mm material scanned to full HD (10-bit U/C DPX) which was done at the BFI's restoration centre in Berkamstead, Herts, even though they use primarily ArriScan units at £1/3rd Million cost!

Colin

What is Cine film conversion and what is it use ?

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